Metamagic as mentioned, just looks like a badly implemented method to try to be like this.ĮDIT: as for negative leveled spells, I am pretty sure you can't make a level 3 spell into a level 1 because of the -2 modifier, it just means you have a "slot" of 2 level modifiers for free, but the spell has still to be cast at the default level even if not modified by metamagic. Without use of metamagic, purely through how a caster improved/leveled up the spell itself. I would have liked if Pathfinder would have allowed spells to be "skilled up" as a character advances so that one spell could be improved so it becomes hard to resist while another becomes able to affect more targets or larger area. If a person doesn't absolutely focus on metamagic it just isn't worth it, and I think the idea behind metamagic was to allow spels to evolve and improve. Honestly, metamagic in Pathfinder is very uninteresting to me, even in 3.5 I only used it twice maybe (or just once). I see this as a very focused specialization for that one spell's use, not unlike how some classes gain a spell at lower level than others. I don't see why the two shouldn't work together, metamagic feats are damn weak compared to 3.5 possibilities with them, even if you have both of these and get a -2 metamagic level modifier for a single/same spell, using a single metamagic which changes the level by +3 would still increase it by one, and in the end it would only work for that one, lone spell. Imo cheese means that despite something being legal, its so outrageous and/or game breaking that whether or not it Does say that, it shouldn't- and therefore won't likely be allowed in an actual game environment. Only cantrips and orisons can be cast an unlimited number of times. You're attempting to cast a spell, not a cantrip or an orison. It is not a cantrip, and you still need to find an appropriate spell slot to cast it with. So it doesn't matter even if you somehow reduce the minimum spell slot required to negative. I think there was an earlier thread on this that had some good links.Īlso, I'm with this guy. You don't have 0 level spell slots, so you can't use this combo to cast a spell as a cantrip. If you are a wizard, you can use a 0 level slot, but that means you get one shot, rather than using it an unlimited number of times. If you are a sorcerer or oracle, you have no level 0 spell slots, so you have to use at least a 1st level slot. Reducing the level of a spell to 0 means you have to use a level 0 or higher spell slot to cast it. You can apply Wayang Spellhunter and magical lineage to cast it using a 2nd level spell slot. It's just like how an extended haste cast using a 4th level spell slot is still a 3rd level spell. A cantrip seems to be defined as a spell that is level 0 ab initio (just like haste is a 3rd level wizard spell, whether you cast it using a 4th or 2nd level spell slot). I actually think that RAW you technically *can* lower a spell below its original level, but also that reducing the effective level to 0 does NOT make it a cantrip. However, that is almost definitely not the intent of the spell to begin with. In the example of Shocking Grasp, I could see the argument for allowing it to be a 1st level spell. The feat says "a" metamagic feat, not "each" metamagic feat. I don't think having multiple metamagic feats would cause the effect to stack multiple times. If it does I think Magus just lost their 15 minute work day and became true DPR kings lol. I'm sure it wasn't intended to work this way but it looks like it does if you go strictly off the wording of the traits.
Im not seeing anything by the wording or under the rules of Metamagic Feats that say this doesn't work. How about a Tenebrous Merciful Scorching Ray as a Cantrip? If i have both traits could I make a Magus that has memorized a 0-Level Tenebrous Intensified Shocking Grasp? By the wording it should work.įor example. Can I use these two traits in conjunction with 0-Level Metamagics to lower the original spell level?
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